With the Super 15 in full swing and the World Cup on the horizon, pull up a pew and listen to rugby’s answer to Dennis Cometti.

Greg Martin Fox Sports Greg Martin Fox Sports
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If Greg Martin was a shy, retiring type, he’d be all but forgotten these days. Only the more astute rugby boffins would recall the proud Queensland fullback who played nine Tests in the late ‘80s, the most notorious of which was the third Test of the ’89 Lions series where Martin grassed that pass from David Campese, gifting the Brits a 19-18 victory. Fortunately for Marto, he’s a warm and gregarious bloke with a sharp wit, a canny rugby brain and a true gift of the gab. For all these reasons, he’s best known these days for his work behind the Fox Sports microphone rather than his toil in the number 15 jersey. With the Super 15 in full swing and the World Cup on the horizon, pull up a pew and listen to rugby’s answer to Dennis Cometti.

Firstly, congrats on organising that Christchurch Earthquake Appeal at Ballymore. A full house, some grand old names and $400,000 raised for the good folk of Christchurch. Looked like a cracking night …

It was a lot of hard work but it was great fun. There was a real good spirit and brotherhood in rugby shown for the Kiwis.

Any chance of getting some Tests back at Ballymore?

Mate, a lot of the old-timers who grew up on a diet of rugby at Ballymore were so happy to see the game back there. You know, rugby was snatched away from Ballymore     without any consultation. Obviously it was to do with money, but no one was ever asked if they still wanted rugby at Ballymore. To sell the place out on a Thursday night is proof that people want rugby back at Ballymore.

 Any stories from the night? 

I’ll tell you this one thing. Before the game everyone got a bit excited and couldn’t remember what they were supposed to be doing, so we were all in the sheds and ready to go two and a half hours before kick-off. We were all that twitchy to get on. So we were sitting around, waiting forever in our gear, laughing and carrying on in the sheds. Then about five minutes before we were due to head down the tunnel, Sam Scott-Young (who’s always been known for his seriousness) suddenly starts firing up. “Right, listen! Fuck, we’re about to play the All Blacks!” And we were all shouting him down, saying, “No we’re not! We’re just playing a bunch of old blokes like us ... ” But

Sam kept going, “No, fuck it! They’ll be wearing All Blacks jerseys, everyone needs to switch on and belt these pricks!” Timmy Horan was sitting there shaking his head and Dan Crowley kept telling him to sit down. Eventually he got howled down ...The best thing was that after 20 minutes of running around and tackling blokes, Sam could hardly breathe. And at half-time everyone started firing up on him. “Come on, Sam! Time to aim up, mate!” Typical Sam Scott-Young – too serious for the night.

What are your thoughts on the new Super 15 format?

Well, it caught me by surprise, to be honest. Because of the “conference” name I was worried the whole thing was going to be a bit Americanised. You know, when you get a bit older you develop a fear of change, and I thought everything was running along pretty hunky dory with the old comp.But I can see now that those local derby games in particular are working their arses off. If there’s one thing people in Australia have had trouble with it’s who the fuck are the Cheetahs? Who are these Lions? The casual observer of rugby – normally a rugby league bloke who just likes watching blokes belt one another – needs tribalism. If you don’t know where someone’s from, and you’re not really clear on who they are, then it’s tough to hate them enough to get passionate about the game. 

Greg Martin Wallabies Greg Martin Wallabies
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But all these local games have helped the part-time rugby enthusiasts grab a bit of interest in the game. 

I’m just a little bit worried about how we keep getting beaten by the New Zealand and South African sides, but we’ll see how that goes as the year goes by ...

Yeah, I’ve always been surprised they didn’t move away from these region-less franchises and back to the old provincial names …

Oh, I know! But in the modern world of sports you’ve got to have a symbol or an emblem or a bloody animal for people to grab hold of ... You know, as commentators we’re not supposed to call them the Auckland Blues or the Waikato Chiefs because they encompass all these other pissy little unions, so we’ve just got to call them the Blues or the Chiefs. I’m not a fan of the names ‒ they don’t mean too much to me ...

In the Australian conference right now we seem to have one decent team and four weak teams. Have we spread our talent too thin with that fifth franchise in Melbourne?

Well, that’s one way of looking at it. And you’re probably right – the Reds have got a faint chance if they start to play alright, but the Waratahs are our only powerhouse. But I’d rather look at it as building talent. I know most of the Rebels’ blokes are from the Queensland and NSW club comps, but I like the fact we’re giving them a chance and they’re winning a few. This expanded competition’s not only about generating more money and getting more games on TV, it’s also about giving these young blokes a go. And that’s got to make us stronger.

And have a look – the fans are hungry for it. The Rebels have hit their low tide mark at 16,000 people per game. I mean, the Storm only got 16,000 to their first game. There are people down in Melbourne who have been dying for rugby and if the Rebels keep winning watch their crowd figures start creeping up to 20,000. The Force are thesame – their low tide mark is 16,000 and they never drop below that. If they start winning they’ll get 20,000 people to their games easily.

Mate, rugby needed to be in those two cities and now that it is, it’s going alright. I know it might not look like it on the table, but those teams will hit a cycle sometime in the next five years where they’ll go alright. They’re wearing some pain now and they’re probably three good players away from being a top

six team, but they’ll come good.

Which young blokes have particularly jumped out at you?

Well, at the Reds Beau Robinson’s been a bit of a surprise. He’s a guy who’s been given a second chance because he’s been hidden behind Phil Waugh, and I like the way he’s going. He’s ferocious. At the Rebels I reckon that hooker, Ged Robinson, has gone really well. You know, he’s a guy who’s 27 and finally got his chance. At the Force those two hookers – Ben Whittaker and Nathan Charles – have impressed me. I reckon they’ll be the two hookers for Australia within two years. And their lock, Sam Wykes, has also started to go alright.

Having said that, I don’t think there’s anyone after the first few rounds who’s said, “Hey, Robbie!” No one’s jumped out of the ground and said, “I have to be in the Wallabies.” I think it’ll be pretty much the tried and the true for the Wallabies this year. I wouldn’t worry too much about the performances of the Super teams – I reckon we’ll have a good squad of 30 for the World Cup.

 After Queensland got hammered by NSW in the second round, Reds coach McKenzie said, “Philosophically the game has shifted a bit. Last year it was all about attack. This year it’s all about the breakdown ... ”

Yeah, the referees have started allowing a bit more of a contest at the breakdown this year. Last year they favoured the attacking team, so the tackler had no rights whatsoever. But this year the tacklers are getting more rights, which means there’s more of a battle at the breakdown. And that’s completely fucked Will Genia and Quade Cooper at the Reds, because they rely on fast ball. More recently, I think the refs have been increasingly strict on the tackler, getting into him, making the ball speed up at the breakdown. And that’s helped the Reds – they’ve got to get fast ball, otherwise Cooper’s stymied.

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Are the refs changing their interpretations because it’s a World Cup year?

Well, yes, and because they’re getting analysed every week. Every week the referees have a guy in the stand with a clipboard analysing their performance, ticking the boxes. Did he apply all the rules? Did he apply the advantage? And if the refs go off the script ‒ if they think, “Yeah, I’m enjoying this game so I might overlook the odd inconsequential rule,”  they get nailed. They’re always refereeing for markers so they can get a run at the World Cup. And so we get rugby’s biggest problem: the over-policing of our game. Mate, it’s amazing the influence the bloody referees have on this game. Because the laws of rugby are so qualitative it’s just their opinion in so many respects.

What laws would you like changed?

Listen, there are two flaws with rugby. The first is the scrum. Now, I know the difference between league and union is the constant contest for the ball in rugby, that’s fine. But these days the scrum is just too pedantic. I mean, the pause might be great for kids, but for professional front-rowers holding back a tonne up your clacker is near-on impossible. And what would the refs know? You ask the props and half the time even they don’t know why a scrum went down. It might be the slightest angle in contact

that’s out and the next thing you know you’re down three points. How can international props walk away from a collapsed scrum with a confused look on their faces, then sit there and watch some blonde-haired, skinny-legged bloke kick three points? It’s not worth three points. It has to change.

The second flaw is the scoring system. It’s easy for the IRB to sit in their offices in Dublin and go, “Why should we change? We’re getting 80,000 people to every Six Nations game.” They don’t have a sport like rugby league or AFL to compete with. They’ve only got soccer, where one goal gets scored and everyone goes home happy. Mate, we need our tries to be worth ten points. If you’re going to keep penalties and drop goals at three points, then tries have to be worth ten. Imagine that! You’d have a crack then, wouldn’t you?And if I could have a third rule change it would be you’re not allowed to kick out on the full anywhere on the field.

 The Brumbies look to be a club in crisis at the moment. Spiro Zavos has argued that the dumping of coach Andy Friend shows player power is out of control in Canberra. What’s your take?

Well, every club’s got player power. The Reds got rid of Phil Mooney with player power, the Tahs got rid of Ewen McKenzie with player power. (Or Phil Waugh power ... ) It happens everywhere. Thing is, if you’re going to have player power, you want to be fucking good players! The Brumbies players aren’t as good as they thought they were and that’s being shown up now. They haven’t got the finishers and, at the moment, they haven’t got the brains, either.

I remember when David Nucifora went down there in 2002 one of his briefs was to strip away the player power because it had gotten out of control. It was a great ideawhen Rod Macqueen started it – when the players bought into decisions like the jersey, the team song; when the players helped build the club culture – but then it just ran amok. And when David started clawing some of that player power back the players all blew up and said, “We’re fucking out of here!” and so David got arseholed after winning the comp. Then the players all said, “Well, he had nothing to do with it ‒ we coached ourselves.”

You know, rugby is a player’s game. But at the professional level you’ve got to have someone who’s responsible for their actions and at the moment the Brumbies’ players aren’t taking that responsibility. They’re not good enough to run the club ‒ they need someone to make the hard decisions. I reckon it was cruel what happened to Andy Friend.

On current evidence, who should be the Wallabies’ five-eighth?

Phew, yeah, it’s a nice problem to have. You think about it, we’ve got five really good five-eighths: Barnes, Cooper, Beale, O’Connor and Giteau. But Cooper’s connection with Genia will probably mean he’ll be the five-eighth. You know, even Berrick playing outside Will – they don’t have that same ESP about them. But we’re certainly lucky that all those five-eighths I mentioned are fast blokes who can go and play other positions. And I think the Wallabies’ backs have got the mix right, as shown by the French game last year. But I’d like to see Adam Ashley-Cooper playing a bit better. We’re just going to need one big bloke at outside centre to knock Sonny Bill down, because that bloke needs to be double tackled. With his ability to slip the ball, one defender can’t handle him.

 And who should take the shots at goal for the Wallabies? It was a problem for them last year, and it’s been a real problem for the Waratahs this season ...

Well, James O’Connor and Kurt Beale look like the deal to me. Give Beale the long ones and O’Connor the short ones. They both seem to be the most natural kickers; they both seem to have the most reliable techniques. To me, Berrick Barnes looks like a manufactured kicker, while I think it’s good to take the pressure off Quade if you can. Let Quade run the game and let the other two do the kicking.

 And who’s your pick for the World Cup?

Mate, my tip would be the All Blacks and us in the final with the All Blacks to win it. After all the shit that’s gone down in New Zealand recently, that’d be a nice way to cheer them up.

– Aaron Scott